Comments due by 11:59pm Sunday November 10, 2013.
On Blackboard you will find Jerry Walls' article "Eternal Hell and the Christian Concept of God". Read that essay closely.
After reading that essay, please watch this very brief video with Jerry Walls.
What do you make of the moves that Walls makes in the essay? Do you find them plausible? Why or why not? Furthermore, what do you make of the distinction Walls makes in the brief video? How does that distinction function in Walls' view on hell?
Engage each other in good conversation. Be gracious, charitable, and humble. Learn from each other!
I feel he is kind of right. God gives us that one chance because you only do in fact live once so that one chance can make or break you in the afterlife for eternity. It is very plausible just because we only have one chance. Either we go to heaven or we go to hell and we only have that one chance for ourselves.
ReplyDeleteNathan Schutz
I agree with Mr Walls. God gives us a chance to redeem ourselves and if we do not then we go to a place that is not pleasant like Hell, and we are stuck there for enterity. I feel that it is plausible because where would all the people who kill for the fun of it or hurt others to get pleasure? They don't go to heaven, they don't deserve it. The devil is considered as a fallen Angel who went bad and God sent him to hell. It is known across the world for heaven and hell so I feel l that our is plausible for that fact as well.
ReplyDeleteAshley Davies.
God gives us multiple chances to turn for the ways of what is wrong and the wrong things (The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases; his mercies never come to an end; they are new every morning; great is your faithfulness. Lamentations 3:22-23) nevertheless if one does not intend to change their way of living or repent form the wrong that they have done the consequence is eternal damnation. The grace of God is for all however if a person is not willing to repent and turn form their ways of doing wrong then there is no guarantee of eternal security … The bottom line is there is Heaven and there is Hell there is not in between; it is one or the other .
DeleteAfter reading the essay and watching the video, I feel strongly, as I have for awhile now, that freewill is the only answer to evil. Walls makes a fantastic point when speaking about Talbott's perspective on freewill. "If God is prepared to override freedom, it is extremely hard to see why he ever allowed freedom in the first place. Why would God allow freedom with all its attendant evil and suffering if he is prepared to retract it in the end?"
ReplyDeleteWall explains that it makes no logical sense for God to grant innate freedom if he plans to save everyone anyway. There is simply to much damage done by freedom if it is to be removed in the end. This leaves only two options. Either there is no freedom, or there is only freedom. To this end, Wall states that no freedom is illogical as well, because no freedom, with evil makes God evil, which is not the Christian concept of God.
To this end, Wall makes a solid and logical argument for freewill and it is one that I find rather compelling. It is difficult to imagine a God that forces humans to do anything. It seems so counter intuitive to an all loving God. This is especially true when considering Calvin's idea of 'the elect'. If God chooses who to is saved prior to birth, then I refuse to ride my way to heaven upon luck. I refuse to accept salvation from a corrupt God.
Jacob Clagg
The paper “Eternal Hell and the Christian concept of God” has a good argument on why they do not think that Hell should exist since they believe in a God that is perfectly loving. Their main points for why they do not think that Hell and eternal damnation fits in with God and his kindness because they do not think that anyone should have to endure eternal punishment for not choosing to follow God. The other problem they have is Universalism, Theological Determinism, and Libertarian Freedom. They think that if God is perfectly loving than he would not allow someone of his creation to suffer in what is described as a burning pit of fire. All of this sounds like a good argument as to why Hell doesn’t seem like it should exist, but in reality Hell should exist. The reason I think this is because Jesus came to earth and lived a perfect and sinless life and died on the cross to save us from our sins. In return we have to live for him and ask him for forgiveness of our sins. We have to choose to live for him and serve him. Because he has the chance and the choice to live for God and have our sins forgiven, we do not have to suffer in Hell. The people that do not want to choose God and live for him and accept his forgiveness suffer in Hell. Even though this sounds like a horrible punishment from a perfectly loving God, it is what that person chose. They chose to not live for God and ask him for forgiveness. Since this is our own fault I do not believe that Hell is unacceptable from a perfectly loving God because those people did not love God themselves.
ReplyDeleteThe video by Jerry Walls also points two different distinctions between how people think about Gods grace. Some people say that God gives plenty of chances and wants to us to be forgiven and live in in heaven for eternity with him. Other people think that God gives us just a tiny chances of for forgivness and grace and then he just turns his back on us so he can damn us to hell. I do not think that is the case and I agree with the first statement. God gives us many chances and he wants to us to spend eternity with him, but this should not be abused. You should not use Gods grace and forgiveness as a reason to do stupid things or purposely sin.
Overall I do not think the moves in the essay are realistic because they are saying that God is perfectly loving so he should never send someone to hell and allow them to have eternal suffering for not choosing him. I think that it is perfectly logical for God to do this because they did not want to live for God even though they knew the possible outcome and therefor they chose their own destination.
Elliott Westerbeck
I stand by my point, free will defense is a failure. I agree with the concept of universal optimal grace-"it is reasonable to believe that God will do everything he can, short of overriding freedom, to elicit a positive response from everyone." also, Talbott makes a good case, by contending that anyone could persist in evil in face of the truth that evil is destructive of one's own happiness, the choice of hell is the choice of eternal misery, by definition. There simply is no intelligible motive for such choice..."
ReplyDeleteIts just ridiculous to think that an all loving,omnipotent, omniscient, etc etc (the common depiction of God) would allow his children whom he loves to suffer for the sole purpose of free-will. thats just..bad parenting, & proof of his incompetence.
Emi Yoshinaga
Humans first instinct is always to blame God. Why does God do this, why does He allow that? Humans are the reason there even is a hell. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth, and it was all perfect. Humans decided to sin and separate themselves from God. Imagine an imperfect world with no discipline from wrongdoing and how chaotic that would be. If there spews no hell and everyone went to heaven, what would be the reason for people to strive to be good? People deny God their whole lives and take for granted what He does and blesses us with. Do those people deserve eternal life in heaven with God when they deny He exists? I think not.
ReplyDeleteVictoria