Comments due by 11:59pm Sunday (9/15).
We have been discussing in class faith and reason issues. In particular, we have been considering together whether the cognitive component of religious faith--one's religious beliefs--are subject to some rational standard and, if so, what that standard might be.
In this video interview, prominent Christian philosopher Peter van Inwagen (Notre Dame) discusses whether philosophy can illuminate religious belief, whether philosophy has anything helpful to say regarding say religious belief.
What do you make of van Inwagen's claims here? Is he right about the role or function of philosophy with respect to religious belief?
As always, be sure to challenge and push one another. Take advantage of this opportunity to think together in community, to cultivate good habits of thinking and the practice of sustained reflection upon matters of incredible significance. And be sure to be gracious, charitable, and humble throughout.
It was interesting how he pointed out that the speaker made it sound like the scientists he know more abstractly than the religious believers. He also brings up the point that some scientists say that the universe is too old and too large for any God to create it. That is sort of interesting because that was the first time that I had heard that argument. He then points out that many religious people have intellectual problems with their faith. An that they have a hard time with the fact that there is pain and suffering in the world with a God that doesn't want that. That was interesting to hear because it is true that no one wants pain and suffering especially in the religious world and also God doesn't like to inflict pain and suffering only when needed (ex. Noah and the Arc). And they also wonder about prayer as well, as petition prayer when God knows better so asking something that they think is the best may not be the best in God's eyes. Philosophy comes in and can help with the difficulties of intellectual problems that believers have. I think he is right that people should really think about their religion and what is best. Just like in any other situation in life. Example is that people should always think before they speak so the philosophy thought behind religion or belief I feel will really help answer questions behind the problems some people have. But the hardcore believers will say that God has everything under control and we shouldn't have to worry about thinking about what is best and that everything will be alright so philosophy can help but not all people will follow this rule.
ReplyDeleteNathan Schutz
I like him, Peter Van Inwagen might not have the answers to some of the questions that the interviewer was hoping to get, yet, but he's such a down to earth person, not to mention humble and open minded. He doesn't deny the believes of either one or the other, simply to provide answers to those who seek help and clarity by offering answers within his intellectual capacity.
ReplyDeleteAs Peter Van Inwagen points out in this interview, that most intellectual difficulties that occur to people with religion are philosophical difficulties; which demonstrates the correlation between philosophy and religion. I am in accordance with his argument, philosophy not only provides intelligibility to questions concerning religion but also questions of life itself.
Peter Van Inwagen also observes that people often encounter intellectual difficulties that go beyond the training that they get, in everyday life in dealing with everyday things. This alludes to the limitation of our perception; Some might suggest otherwise though I don't recognize it as a defect, from it comes humility, curiosity, hunger for knowledge, drive for deeper understanding, creativity and innovation.
E. Yoshinaga
I like the fact that he says it is not philosophy's role to justify religion. I also like how he talked about not all design theories are biological. I also like how he says that a scientist said the universe is too big and too old to be designed by the God of the Bible and he responds with, "Well, Isn't God supposed to be infinite?" He also says that religious people have intellectual questions that cannot be answered by religion alone. I do like how he is honest about how philosophy can make you wonder whether A about God or B about God is correct. OR whether or not neither of them are correct. Overall, I agree with what he says about religion and philosophy working together.
ReplyDeleteMiranda Cornwell
I was particularly impressed that Peter van Inwagner started out by laying the foundation when I said that it is not philosophy's role to justify religion… along with him labeling himself an apologetic. I feel that he is trying to illuminate that while philosophy and religion are to separate areas they can work together. For me he opens that door for one to keep the faith element to religion while allowing philosophy to explore and deepen ones understanding as it comes to religion.
ReplyDeleteI think that we need to be aware of our faith and be willing to grow in an understanding of it and we should not be afraid to grapple with it. For it is though inquiring that we grow in knowledge of our faith, for if we do not question we will never grow. If we just take our faith for face value without inquiries then we will soon become lacking in faith.
Peter van Inwagen states that although Philosophy has the possibility to help people with religious problems they may encounter in life, there is no way to find some "Deeper truth" about God through Philosophical means. Thinking about God Philosophically creates alternatives, and does not enrich your understanding of God, but thinking of difficulties that occur with Religion in a Philosophical way can be helpful.
ReplyDeleteThere is a definite connection between Religion and Philosophy, and for any Religious believer or Philosopher, neither should be completely rejected. But Inwagen states that it is not Philosophy's "role" to deepen our understanding of God or Religion.
There are many issues that people deal with everyday, and Philosophy and Religion are two that bring up many discussions, but I think that balance of Philosophic thought and Religious ideas in our everyday life is important.
K. Mike Gillum
It seems like everyone is affirming that Inwagen seems to know what he's talking about. He does indeed appear to be very down to earth and honest. He says that while philosophy is useful for apologetic, it doesn't do much else. It might be able to give us possible other understandings of the way that we see God, but it doesn't bring a deeper understanding of God.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure how I feel about this. Inwagen is clearly more qualified than I am for this and we could be talking about different things, but a certain friend of mine believes very firmly in Calvinism (predestination) and for a while I was on the fence leaning toward Arminianism (freewill). For those who don't know much about this, there is evidence in the Bible for both views so much of our discussions became very philosophical and overtime the discussion convinced me to lay a little more heavily on the Arminian side. This gives me a certain understanding of God as opposed to what I would have had with a more Calvinistic view. Again, I don't know if this is what Inwagen is talking about, but it seems to go against his view.
--TT--
I think that Peter Inwagen did a good job of not giving in to what Roger Kuhn wanted him to say. The more videos I watch with Robert in them the more I think that he doesn't actually want to beleive and that he is so against believing that he has to trick himself out of believing. He constantly has a rebuttal in all circumstances, but still wants to "believe" that their is a God and have faith. With that being said I think that Inwagen explained to him very well that religion phylosophy do not have to be used together because people learn and use faith differently. I'm still lost as to say weather I think that faith and reason should be used together because I still think that "faith" is your reason. Some things don't need a reason and people that need a reason for faith in fact have an intellectual difficulty with their religious beliefs like Inwagen said.
ReplyDeleteelliott westerbeck
I was impressed that Peter Inwagen said that he was unsure what philosophy can do for religion besides being apologetic. He does a good job of not telling the interviewer the exact answer he is looking for. He gives him other ideas to think about to help him understand his question. when it comes to faith and reason Peter Inwagens says that they do not have to go together with religion and I feel that he is right. In my eyes if you have a reason to have faith in something or to believe in something it will be different from something else. Your reason is your faith.
ReplyDeleteThe first main point that Peter van Inwagen declares is that philosophy introduces objections into religion. However, he also says that he does not think that philosophy should seek to justify religion. By making this claim, Van Inwagen does admit that philosophy has some relationship with faith. He continues by illustrating his experiences of listening to others and notes that some religious people tend to separate intellectual beliefs and faith as two differing concepts. However, Van Inwagen states, many religious people tend to have “intellectual difficulties” with their faith. He uses the example of the question of pain and suffering in this world if there is an omnipotent entity. Here, he asserts that, by combining reason and faith, philosophy can sometimes attempt to explain and assist the difficulties in faith. Nevertheless, there are still circumstances in which the two concepts cannot be intermingled. For example, Van Inwagen says that philosophy cannot explain knowledge that some people seem to happen upon by prayer.
ReplyDeletePersonally, the most prominent statement that Peter van Inwagen makes is that “everyone experiences intellectual difficulties with all beliefs” whether political, religious, or others. This statement intimates, for me, that philosophy or reason in general can be woven into everything that humans do or believe because reason is the foundation of human understanding. Therefore, in my opinion, reason is the held in the highest standard and faith can only be understood with and by reason.
- Taryn Leigh Morgan
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ReplyDeleteAfter listening to the video and reading some of the comments, I am convinced that either I misunderstood the video, or most of you did. It seems that Inwagen barely made a point at all. From my perspective, he seemed to be on the defensive side of everything, neither answering the questions fully nor posing any new ones. The one case he did make is that philosophy can be used for apologetics rather than actually deepening someones understanding of faith. This is the point where he essentially says that reason can be used to confirm ones faith. He did NOT say that philosophy deepens one's understanding of faith, and this is shown by the "A or B" conversation. Rather, Inwagen simply believes that Philosophy can be used to support ones current faith.
ReplyDeleteUsing reason as a way of rationalizing your faith is a good thing, I think and the ability to not only have faith for something, but to believe it wholly is beneficial. Although I would like to think that Philosophy can be used as a tool in which to deepen my own understanding of my religion, Inwagen seems to believe that both are too abstract to really explain each other.
Inwagen Interview:
ReplyDeleteFirstly, I agree with Inwagen's statement that philosophy does not justify a religion. Individuals who have philosophy and religion can put them together. Also Inwagen points out how the idea of evolution and Darwinism isn't all biological. I completely agree that philosophy is in fact apart of religion and religion is not just faith based. Along with the point he made about religious individuals having intellectual difficulties. However I did not like how he couldn't say how philosophy has helped religion. Philosophy has an impact on religion without question. It does help intellectual problems. Also it helps us with opening our minds to alternative ways of thinking. For example, when considering what is moral or immoral. Do we fully rely on religion for that answer or do we consider the what is right by the philosophy of ethics? I feel personally that philosophy and religion walk hand in hand and are often used to help individuals understand one or the other.